Barbed Wire Across A River

[Dave Stephens]

Is this legal?

is it permissible if trying to keep in livestock?

Is live stock pooping and peeing in the river allowed?

Are your blatantly lost rolls of chicken and barbed wire loose all over the river bank obvious enough to get you in trouble?

Brock and I hit a float that some of you have heard me talk about before. I'll keep the creek name out of it for now but will bring it up if necessary for discussion. My biggest beef is if the flow is anything higher than what we observed the other day there is a serious, and I mean very serious risk of maiming and scarring and bodily injury via barbed wire fences across a navigable river. They appear to be there to keep live stock in place.

Comments? Thoughts? Can TOSA get involved?

Dave

[shwookie]

I was looking on google for some answers since we went and can't seem to find out if this is an odnr question, or someone else.
I'm gonna call the odnr tomorrow to atleast find out if they can help point me in the right direction.

The most ironic part is the fact that the fences didn't hamper the cattle at all, they pass right through it, only people trying to get downstream.

My biggest beef

Thats funny.

[shwookie]

Ohio law also addresses the situation where a stream marks the dividing line between two properties. If the landowners cannot or do not want to place a fence down the middle of the stream, or cannot agree to place the fence otherwise, the township trustees will be called in to determine placement of the fence. The trustees must assign a share of the fence to each landowner, to be joined by a fence or water gate through the stream. In this case, each landowner is responsible for the share of the fence on his or her property, up to the division line in the stream.

A second situation that can arise with water is where a dividing line crosses a stream. The law requires that the landowners share equally in the construction and maintenance of a water gate across the stream.

The last paragraph is the most relevant part. Its refering to neighbors sharing expenses, but since a fence between neighbors is required to have a river gate, wouldn't the same apply to any fence crossing the water? Of course then the question becomes, is this any waterway, or are there qualifications to it?
I found this on the web, so the validity of quote is suspect....

ohioline.osu.edu/als-fact/1001.html

[shwookie]

Also......

Liability also attaches to a person who harms or destroys a fence. Cutting through a fence, knocking down a fence, or removing fence posts or gates creates a claim for property damage on behalf of the fence owners.

[Dave Stephens]

I might suggest that the adjacent properties were owned by the same individual or individuals. The steer and cattle were allowed to cross the river, just not go up or downstream too far. Apparently the same applies for us.

Dave

[shwookie]

Unfortunately my searching only turned up properties across from each other. Even in the ORC, there was no real mention of the type of situation we are looking for.

[Dave Stephens]

Good research Brock. But the same guy lets his cows cross the creek, so the issue may be that a property owner may or may not block a navigable creek for his own purposes?

I dunno, Ohio seems to be tough to coin on these things.

Dave

[Andyman]

Dude, I told you I discussed this with DNR at Darby Days. They want us to send an email with locations etc...and said that he'd track down an answer and/or a solution for us.
I've got the email addy of the guy we need, I was just waiting for you to send me some location info.

[ecoangler]

I think this one may fall under several possible jurisdictions.

First, speak with Div. of Watercraft. There maybe an understanding, court ruling or judgement from the attorney general. I think they probably have handled this question before.

Secondly, It may fall under a county or similar entity as a land or zoning-like laws. It may actually be a dated law from back in the 1800's. County engineer, auditor's office or soil & water district office may have an idea.

Lastly, Check with a state/national level paddling, environmental or hunting/sportsmens organization. They tend to retain legal departments for such issues and legislative policies..

Rick

[ecoangler]

I'll try contacting the former watershed coordinater for Paint Creek. She may well be able to offer an answer or point a direction.

Oh! Here is something to keep in mind! Is that stream navigable? That may well become a significant portion in the issue. That will require a judgement call and under what qualify or disqualifying elements are required by someone?

Fuel for thought?

Rick

[Dave Stephens]

what might define navigable rick? we walked it alot the other day but in the spring we floated every last bit.

andy has a good lead. lets let him follow up and see what happens.

Dave

[Dave Stephens]

Andy,

Did you ever get a reply to this question?

Dave

[ecoangler]

Dave,
If its floatable is navigable.
If you hiking its not.

Thats the seasonal question I continue to place with watercraft. They to fall back on the idea if it can be PADDLED then its navigable.

I guess you were hiking with your boat seaching for navigable water.

Go figure?

Rick

[shwookie]

Just in case it matters, all the fences happen to be in portions of water that are floatable...

[ohioyaker]

Dont worry Dave & Brock, next time I go through that section I'll be happy to take care of that nasty barbed wire for ya...
You should see how many there are in other stretches on that stream...geez.

Scott